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RIP, Mr. Shannon.

One of his last postings:
http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/05/25/6716036

I too was saddened to hear this. I had met Terry many times at DECUS (and he
once gave me a Charlie Matco mug, which I treasure.) I know that Terry felt
troubled and at one time was battling alcoholism. I think the demise of DEC
(and later Compaq) hit him hard, as he had positioned himself as the leading
industry analyst on DEC and he was a strong promoter of DEC and its products.

Rest in peace, Terry.

Steve

Indeed I am also saddenned. I met Terry several times at DEC related events
when I lived in the US in the eighties. Charlie Matco was regular reading
. I always liked the guy and really did feel for him as DEC got gobbled
by CompaQ and reingested by HP, really making his life and professional
position difficult. In the end I believe he was forced to be too close to
HP and that rendered his work less insightful than it previously was. I
understand why though, and cannot really fault him for it.

Besides which, he was a vet and gets a star from me for that !

RIP Terry Shannon.

Dr. Dweeb

Folks,

If you go to his web site and read this article it explains a lot about
what he had been going through
[url]http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/05/25/6716036[/url]

I am sorry that I can not really talk about this yet
sue

Sue, while we may not be physically there with you, you are not alone.
And in a few days, you’ll have plenty of people around you and a
succesful VMS event.

I read the article at

[url]http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/05/25/6716036[/url]

To me, the saddest part was that he wrote that he couldn’t afford health
insurance. He mentioned that the premium was about $5k per year.
Remember, for every high-profile person who can’t afford health
insurance, there are many others. It is estimated that about 50 million
U.S. citizens don’t have health insurance. There was an article in the
German weekly “Der Spiegel” recently where it was pointed out that
although the U.S. spends about $5k per year per person for medical care,
putting them at the top of the list, the quality is far from being top
of the list. Apparently, a lot of the money goes into profits for drug
companies, where the margins are much higher than other countries. This
is justified by saying that this ensures that the quality is high, but
let’s face it, people are not suffering in other countries such as
Canada, Germany, Sweden etc from low-quality drugs. In Europe, the
average health-insurance contribution is about $2500 per year, and in
the huge majority of cases (there are occasional slip-ups now and then
as regulations change, which are understandably criticised but it is
important to remember that these are problems many countries wish they
had) this gets one all the medical care which is necessary. (I recently
recovered from cancer; the costs were orders of magnitude above what I
had paid in to the scheme—of course, that’s the purpose of insurance.)

Dear Sue (and all the others here too),

I’m terribly saddened at the loss of your friend Terry. As I alluded to
in another thread on this subject, I didn’t really know him well–just
from frequent chats at the old Fall Decus symposia, and from his
Charlie Matco and other writings–yet I looked on him as a friend too.

As a co-sufferer from depression who has sometimes sunk quite deeply
myself, though in recent years only briefly, it’s easy for me to
imagine how the history of recent years–not just that of
DEC–>Compaq–>HP, but his own and that of the world around us
all–might have affected him.

My deepest condolences to all who knew and loved him.

Galen

No, the saddest part is that the VMS marketplace had shrunk/changed to a
point where he was no longer making enough money to live at a reasonable
comfort level. It isn’t just the VMS marketplace, it is also the
internet which makes the information widely and easily available and it
is a lot harder to convert into money. It started when Digital News and
Review ceased publications because it felt the DEC marketplace wasn’t
big enough anymore.

It is very hard on a person who had invested so much time, effort and
scarce money into being loyal to Digital and VMS to see all that
investment squandered. DEC employees had plush severance packages and
retirement funds. Self employed people who had helped market VMS because
Digital didn’t were stuck without any such help.

A year ago, a long time DECUS Canada leader was in her death bed with
terminal cancer. She died well, not because of the medical care she was
given, not because she had lived comfortably but because she still had
very good spirits, and lots of friends visiting her constantly. To me,
that was a good death.

Even where medical care is given to all citizens, you still need money
to survive. Without money, it is hard to maintain friendships since you
can’t really participate in any of their activities. And you end up
alone even if your body is physically sound.

I’m not so sure we do, David. Susan might know more than the rest of us.

Clinical depression is normally fatal via suicide, right? Nobody has posted
a link to an obituary. I’m not suggesting that anybody who knows something
in confidence should speak out, but maybe if Charlie’s local newspaper
printed something we should know…

–Keith Lewis klewis {at} mitre.org
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

I regret Terry’s passing. He made valuable contributions to promote the welfare
of VMS and of his colleagues and deserves to be remembered when the history of
these systems and their technology is written.

Glenn Everhart

Thanks for the link Sue. ‘nam eats another one He will be greatly
missed.

Of course, that’s the purpose of unemployment insurance and, when that
expires, welfare. In many countries, the level is determined by the
amount necessary to “participate in society”. Yes, it costs money, paid
for by those who work. Yes, they would, at least at first, have more
money if they didn’t have to pay for it. However, I would rather pay
higher taxes than see people be shut out of society and perhaps even die
just because they lose their job. And, in the long run, it doesn’t even
more money for those still working, since many people will turn to crime
when there is no other way. I’m sure it costs more to support someone
in jail than on welfare (and the U.S. is in the top 5 countries in the
world with respect to percentage of the population in jail).

Perhaps not. My intent was to express understanding of loss and grief,
nothing further.

Sue’s been through a lot lately. Y’know, we just observed the first
anniversary of John Wisniewski’s passing. Google this group for Sue’s
posts, sort the results by date, and you can review some of the other
challenges fate has brought her way since then. Members of the SIG
mailing list can search their mail archives for her O-O-O messages, as
well.
[color=blue]
> Susan might know more than the rest of us.[/color]

She and I have already discussed some of it.

@gltackett

Likewise, I have my challenges. We are both still here. Perhaps we both
have strength we need to remember when our spirits are low.

I had a suicidal alcoholic depressive live-in about 14 years ago. You
can only “watch” someone run their car into the back of a DoT truck or
head-on into a dump truck so many times before you realize how insidious
the affliction can be. I’m sure those experiences were brought into my
life for a reason, and I hope I have learned the lessons they sought to
teach me.

> My deepest condolences to all who knew and loved him.

Many of us here knew him. Some were close to him, and he to them. I echo
your sentiments with all my heart.

Not to start a flame thread, but IIRC veterans have certain medical services
provided free of charge by Uncle Sam via the Veterans Administration (which
Terry alluded to in his blog).

Dr. Dweeb

Anyone with nay first hand experience with VA medical assistance can
attest to … well, don’t get me started…

@Phillip Helbig
That it’s almost as bad as every other “free” plan

@David J Dachtera
Like the free plan people have in countries like, well, denmark, germany
etc.

Dweeb

@Sue
Sorry to hear this. Thanks for the ref Sue. As I read it, and other
pages, I realised he was the same age as I. A colleague at work asked
me his age when I told hime of Terrry”s death. I’d guessed a bit
higher. There but for the grace…

Rest in peace Terry.

–
Cheers – Dave W.

@Dr. Dweeb

Is dying while waiting for treatment really worth it?

@Dr. Dweeb
This reminds me of the days of Data General vs Digital in a bid. I was
surprised to see how little each vendor really knew about the other and
how much unwarranted dirt was being thrown around to try to discredit
the other.

Your government and profitable health care corporations always trash
foreign health care systems with exagerations such as the above. And
those who haven’t travelled much have no point of reference to judge the
validity of such statements so they become urban myths woespread in the USA.

In reality, health care systems outside the USA, while far from perfect,
do provide better health care overall. Cuba is a very good example.
Health of Cubans is on average much better than health of americans on average.

Governments have the ability to limit the percentage of GPD spent on
health care. In the USA, the health care providers want more customers
and want more spending on health care. But as a result, the USA is less
competitive worldwide because for every widget you try to export, it has
a greater percentage of costs associated with helath care for employees.

Consider the old establisehd employee intensive corporatiosn in the USA
(airlines, GM/Ford/Chrysler) who now find themselves having to pay huge
sums of money to insure retrired employees who live longer than
predicted. Young airlines with essentially no retired employees enjoy an
unfair advantage.

With a national health care system, the costs are spread evenly, without
any unfair advantages given to some companies or others. And it does
cover those self employed folks who could not afford similar care in the
USA. However, generally, it is true that the USA provides easier access
to truly bleeding edge medecine (but not always). Bear in mind that the
human body is pretty old and robust and when properly taken care of, it
stays in shape and good health and doesn’t require so much health care support.

Prevention ends up costing a lot less than cure.

@jfmezei
> Cuba is a very good example.
> Health of Cubans is on average much better than health of americans on[/color]
average.

Care to repeat that in some areas of Miami?
Don’t forget to load up your health insurance first …:)

@David J Dachtera
There is no free lunch (or health care) Think about it – the doctors,
nurses, ambulance drivers, janitors etc etc all expect to get the pay-check.
Add costs, taxes and other expenses – it’s just not free. If someone gets it
for “free” it simply means that someone(s) else pay.

Sure, it may be nice to know you have a sort of social security safety-net
below you – but it does not come “free” – you pay for that (taxes anyone?)

@No One
Just to clarify a few things: in Germany you pay for your health insurance.
As an employee your employer pays half of it, if you are self-empoyed you
pay all of it. The amount you pay depends on your salary/income. Children
and husbands/spouses are free if they have no income and the other partner
pays his insurance. There are some more details, but the principle is as such.

Finally I have been in hospitals in Germany, Tonga, Turkey and the USA. The
differences I found between the States and Germany are neglectable besides the
fact that the prize in the US was considerably higher.

Regards,
Christoph Gartmann

@jfmezei
> Health of Cubans is on average much better than health of americans on average.[/color]

Yeah, right. That must be why they had a near epidemic of vitamin
deficiency 5 years ago. And why the best and the brightest medical minds
in Cuba couldn’t diagnose it properly.

Those Cubans must be dumb as stumps, fleeing that paradise in inner
tubes for the US shore.

@Dr. Dweeb
> Is dying while waiting for treatment really worth it?[/color]

Is dying because you cannot afford medical insurance any better?

Actual case, my premiums have increased on average 25% per year for the
last 6 years, and I’m told to expect it to continue. I started out with
no deductable, and had to change that. Small help.

At some point, you decide you cannot afford to live.

@Phillip Helbig
> Not to start a flame thread, but IIRC veterans have certain medical services
> provided free of charge by Uncle Sam via the Veterans Administration (which
> Terry alluded to in his blog).

Terry never made a secret of the fact that he was a veteran. I don’t
know what kind of benefits the VA offers or why he didn’t take them up
if they were available. Certainly in many cases the mental damages of
war can be as bad as the physical ones, so I would be surprised if the
VA didn’t have medical services in this area as well.

@Dr. Dweeb
> Is dying while waiting for treatment really worth it?
I am now completely recovered from cancer which I got last September.
My chemotherapy cost many times my annual contribution (mandatory health
insurance taken out of my salary) and perhaps many times my lifetime
contribution. While long waiting lists might be a problem in some
countries, it’s not the case in Germany.

The alternatives are not “dying while waiting for treatment” and having
everything private and/or too expensive for many people to pay. There
are other possibilities.